Crossroads Fellowship

Wednesday, December 05, 2007

Relentless Spirituality

I am currently reading a book entitled Relentless Spirituality by Gary Keisling. So far it has been a very good read, and this morning I was really challenged with the illustration the author, and A.B. Simpson, had used when talking about submission to Jesus Christ. It was asserted that the level of our yielding and submission to Jesus Christ is evidenced in our lives by the level of our submission to our earthly parents. Rather than quote the author I am going to explain my perception of what this might mean. As I process all of this I think to myself that I am a grown man who does not live under his parents rules or authority anymore. The illustration further gets clouded when we look at the fact that my dad and mom don't agree with everything that I believe the Lord has revealed to me. That is not meant to insult my parents, but rather to point out that sometimes my folks would advise me in ways that I don't think the Lord would. So this illustration gets a little tricky for me.

As I sit and ponder though, my mind is drawn back to the command of our Lord that I would honor my father and mother. So even though we don't always agree on our world view, and even though I am a man raising my own family and not under their rule any longer, I still have to honor them. Do I always honor my parents? Not always - sometimes they might even tell you that I am just plain hard headed and hurtful. Yet it is true that my submission to the Lord and my yieldedness to him can be gauged by my relationship with my parents. I am supposed to honor and love them, treating them with respect even when I don't agree with them or understand why they do what they do. Let's face it, sometimes I don't agree with or understand everything God is trying to do in my life, but if I have a submissive attitude I will yield to him and honor him.

The illustration though gets a little deeper for me. My earthly parents are not my spiritual parents. My spiritual parents are really Bernie Anderson and Renee Anderson. They are the people that are over me in the Lord, whose job it is to bring me to a place of maturity in the Lord. I am submissive to their authority in my life? You are going to have to ask them. If I am not then I am not truly yielded to God and submissive to Him because I am not submitting to the people he has placed over me to guide me and a grow me up. Even further is submission to denominational authorities such as my Church Planting Director and my District Superintendent. These too are men that God has placed in my life to direct and guide me. When I am rebellious to them I am actually rebellious towards God and the submission issue is really one of submitting to the Lord.

When I start to look at it all this way, then I start to see the need to submit and yield to the authority of these people in my life even further, because it is really a reflection of the attitude of my heart about how submitted I am to God!

posted by Pastor Jerry at 8:56 AM

8 Comments:

  • Perhaps the best way to honor a parent at times is to separate yourself from them.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:04 PM  

  • I am attempting to read the same book and it is difficult. There is so much in every sentence that you can not just read it once and go on. You have to re-read it several times to get everything out of it. Perhaps Emergent Eddie should begin by questioning himself and his choices. A child that is left to choose for himself will always pick the path that seems the easiest or most gratifying to the fleshly nature.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:20 AM  

  • interesting.....one word of caution....there is much out there on being "spiritual"...I would remind you that this isnt what its about....it's about godliness (piety) and righteousness of which neither can be obtained on our own it MUST come from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit....the Pharisees were very "religious" (spiritual) people....but Jesus constantly spoke about the condition of their hearts....perhaps some studies of Reformed theology are more worthwhile than "being spiritual" ;-)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:43 AM  

  • So that anonymous's comment will make sense. Emergent Eddie is a friend of mine who's posts are all tongue in cheek sarcasm. Just to get people to think. However people are taking them as legit comments so I deleted them.

    My number two point. The study of reformed theology can never replace a real and meaningful relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Being spiritual DOES NOT mean being religious. The book that I quoted "Relentless Spirituality" is about developing the Christian disciplines of prayer, submission to God, sacrifice, worship, abstinence from the things of the world, etc. We can not be afraid of using words such as "spirituality" because some people have abused it or redefined it. The scriptures say this:

    1 Corinthians 2:13-14

    And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

    There is nothing wrong with being a spiritual person so long as it is God's Holy Spirit that we are listening to. So I turn the word of caution back at you and warn you that though your intentions may be good Defenderoftruth you verily border on self-righteousness. As much as I love Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron and the Way of the Master you are almost starting to sound like Todd Freil, the WOTM talk show host, who is a bit legalistic to say the least, and who I DO NOT agree with on most points of living out our faith. Anyway...take it for what it is worth.

    By Blogger Pastor Jerry, at 8:48 AM  

  • Pastor Jerry.
    It’s interesting to me that you pass the judgment “you verily border on self-righteousness” ….when I clearly stated in my comment “of which neither can be obtained on our own it MUST come from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit”….. and frankly Pastor….how are things “Spirit-ually” discerned….back to my comment, from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit….this judgment is curious in that you are a “Pastor”….but at the end of the day…..this blog is for you and your flock (I assume)….of which, you will give an account (Hebrew 13:17). For their sake, I hope you have it right.

    You see your judgment is really a reaction to my mentioning reformed theology. Which most rail against these days and often because they simply do not understand them because they have never taken the time to thoroughly study them (emphasis on thoroughly); and so reformed theology is often misrepresented. My guess would be: you are no different.

    You see brother Jerry; to obtain salvation by some effort of your own merit is actually sin. And furthermore, by your own efforts to please God, by your own merits, you are actually sinning (“you” being people in general). It’s the merits and works of Christ that saves any of us and pleases God. No amount of piety, spirituality, legalistic works, nor any other attempt at self grace will do it…..for the Scripture says:

    Rom 3:10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
    Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.

    Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
    Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    I don’t know how much more clearly it needs to be said “and this is not of your own doing”…..it’s clearly grace alone that anyone is saved. So the question that becomes us is: Do I get my beliefs (or theology; the study of God) from the influence of man and culture or do I get them from the Word of God?

    I submit to you, as much as today’s “Christians” try to rail against the Doctrines of Grace, they are THE Gospel clearly defined. History proves that the greatest times of revival came when these doctrines were thundered from the pulpits and the streets (go study it, it’s there). The fact that so many rail against them is evidence to me that they are in fact the Gospel…..for man, deep inside, always wants to rebel against the Truth.

    Even Peter stated that Paul’s letters were hard to understand and to which he says “which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” How much of that is going on in America’s Christianity?

    2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
    2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
    2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
    2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

    (On a side note: isn’t it cool how Peter is more or less also saying that Paul’s letters are now “Scripture” in verse 15, 16? He exhorting them to read them and attempt to understand …..validating further that all Scripture is God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired, written thru men……truly amazing!!)

    I sense that you don’t like what I said. However, seeking to be spiritual is important and I am not trying to demean what you said; there is just a lot of junk out there that turns into this contemplative garbage. For we should be seeking to become Godly people, in fact we are commanded to seek Him and His righteousness. But we must grow in grace…..and the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    With that said; I don’t expect you or anyone else to understand the Doctrines of Grace (Reformed theology) unless you take the time to study and measure them against God’s Word which I have done. And even then, for just like the 1 Corinthians 2 passage you point out, only God can reveal (open people’s eyes) these things and Scripture through His Word….

    Luk 24:16 But their eyes were kept from recognizing him.

    Luk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
    Luk 24:28 So they drew near to the village to which they were going. He acted as if he were going farther,
    Luk 24:29 but they urged him strongly, saying, "Stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent." So he went in to stay with them.
    Luk 24:30 When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them.
    Luk 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight.
    Luk 24:32 They said to each other, "Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?"

    And let me say before another judgment is passed: I am far from understanding the Word completely and never will completely understand it all. So I am far from complete understanding…..even of the Doctrines of Grace.

    Lastly, anytime you accuse someone of being self-righteous you make yourself self-righteous….you set yourself apart with such a statement. If you meant in a salvific nature then I actually chuckle at your comments being that A). You don’t know me. B) I WHOLE HEARTEDLY believe I have no righteousness apart from Christ Jesus …& C). I believe in the Doctrines of Grace which teaches the utter dependence on God for ANYTHING, especially in salvation and righteousness. I could not agree more……the most important thing is our relationship with Jesus Christ, Amen.

    I just attempted to submit seeking knowledge, wisdom and understanding, in prayer, of God’s Word, and doctrine is much more important (1st Timothy pretty much sums up the importance of sound doctrine) and then your “spirituality” will flow from your soul as you sing praises to God for His ….AMAZING GRACE!

    Brother, I am far from legalistic….I am realistic…..To God alone be the glory!

    Php 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

    (For the record: I do not suffer from the idolatry of TWOM, Kirk Cameron, Ray Comfort, Todd Friel and company as I submit some do. God put my focus back on the Cross.)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:46 AM  

  • Thanks Defenderoftruth. Your comment says that studying Reformed Theology is more worthwhile than being spiritual.

    Bottom line....I disagree with that statement.

    You said the Pharisees were religious(spiritual)

    Bottom line....I disagree with that statement. While they were extremely religious they were not spiritual they were legalists.

    Your first comment on the blog sounds as if you afraid to use the word spiritual because of people's misuse of it today.

    Many "reformists" are afraid to use the word meditate as well, because it is bad. However the scriptures clearyly state for us to meditate on God's word. I am not saying that you feel that way, but in general the folks who make such sweeping statements as you made usually feel that way.

    I have never stated that I was encouraging people to obtain salvation on their own merit. It was never implied. This post was never about salvation or evangelization. You turned it that way...this was about spiritual growth of the person who has REPENTED and TRUSTED in Jesus.

    Probably most of my flock would giggle if they read you whole last comment because you turn it into a salvation teaching the actual thing that I actively teach in my church about salvation.

    As far as "contemplative" goes again there is nothing wrong with it. You can not show me in scripture where meditation on God and His word is sin. And I can actually show you where it is commanded. Even in 1 Timothy which you said was where we are told sound doctrine is more important.

    KJV
    Meditate upon these things;give thyself wholly to them;that thy profiting may appear, to all.
    1 Timothy 4:15

    That word meditate is the following Greek word.

    G3191
    μελετάω
    meletaō
    mel-et-ah'-o
    From a presumed derivative of G3199; to take care of, that is, (by implication) revolve in the mind: - imagine, (pre-) meditate.

    Bottom line is this. If you go read a previous blog a few posts back about Dry Up or Blow Up you will see that we need sound doctrine and "spirituality" in equal Christ centered balanced measure. Anywho....don't get so offended...I said you are BORDERING on self-righteousness....I didn't make an accusation.

    Probably not going to respond anymore to this post as this whole conversation has completely and totally missed the point of the original post.

    By Blogger Pastor Jerry, at 12:15 PM  

  • This comment has been removed by the author.

    By Blogger Steve Hill, at 1:36 PM  

  • Ya know ... this is one of the things, for good, bad or ugly about Christianity in specific and organized religion in general. You can pull scriptures out to prove or disprove most anything you want. Each says that the other is in error and they are the bearers of 'truth' because 'they' are correctly being led by the holy spirit. It's amazing, almost to the point of disgusting at times.

    By Blogger Unknown, at 10:13 PM  

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